The Bible is a pretty awesome book…as long as you see it for what it is and what it is not. The Bible is certainly not ‘infallible’ and it’s definitely not ‘complete’. Anyone who tells you that, just doesn’t understand where the Bible came from and what it went through in order to reach us.
The Bible has stood alone for many years…but in the last days…it’s becoming evident why the Bible needs the Book of Mormon.
The Bible is by definition a “collection of books” written by various authors that were not necessarily eye witnesses to the events that took place in it. It was recorded by apostles and disciples many years after the events took place. In some situations, no one was even present to become an eye witness and thereby had to be given the knowledge of the event by revelation. This fact alone proves that Joseph Smith was not way off base in claiming revelation for various events such as the Book of Moses and The Book of Abraham.
Take for instance the most important event in the history of the world, and the climax of all events in the Bible. The atonement. It took place in the Garden of Gethsemane and although Peter, James, and John went with Jesus to Gethsemane…they stopped “a stones throw away” and subsequently fell asleep. They didn’t witness blood coming from every pore, the pleadings of Christ with the Father, or the angel that strengthened Him while He was in pain. Therefore, that event had to have been revealed to someone in order for it to be recorded in the gospels.
Herein lies the problem for the Bible. It is incomplete! And rightly so. Who said that God was going to stop talking to us through prophets? Why would He? He’s been doing it since the day He dropped a garden in Eden…so why would He stop now when we need it the most.
As you read the Bible…if you get deep enough into it…you’ll start to realize that there are some very serious unanswered questions. But if you read the Book of Mormon, in connection with the Bible, you’ll start to realize that those questions begin to be answered. The Bible tells us what happened, while the Book of Mormon tells us why it happened.
One day I met with a man in Michigan who was a junior pastor for his local congregation. He loved meeting with us, and we with him. A very nice and respectful guy and super interested in what we had to say. One day we shared a message with him that included some teachings about the Fall. The next time we came over to his house to meet with him, he told us that he taught his congregation about the fall out of 2 Nephi 2 in the Book of Mormon…but didn’t tell them where he had learned the things he was teaching. He conceded that 2 Ne 2 was the best explanation of the Fall that he had ever heard…and this guy had a library like I had seldom seen.
This guy and his congregation had been transformed by the ‘why’ of the Fall…
Unanswered Biblical Questions Answered By The Book of Mormon
Here are a few more reasons why the Bible needs to Book of Mormon:
1. Genesis 3:24 – Why was Cherubim placed to guard the tree of life after Adam and Even transgressed? Why was it so important that they remained in a fallen state?
The Book of Mormon answers this question in Alma 12:21-27 by teaching us that “if it were possible that our first parents could have gone forth and partaken of the tree of life they would have been forever miserable”. Why? Because none of us would have been able to progress. We needed to understand the bad in order to comprehend the good. We needed to understand that there is opposition in all things. Partaking of the tree of life would have removed eternal progression from the equation…and eternal progression is the entire point of the plan of salvation. If you don’t understand eternal progression, then you won’t the events that took place in the Garden of Eden.
2. Romans 11:25 – Paul calls this a mystery. He says that Israel will remain “in blindness…until the fullness of the Gentiles is come in.” What the heck is the “fullness of the Gentiles”?
In 1 Nephi 15:12-13 Nephi tells his brothers that after “the Messiah shall be manifested in body unto the children of men, then shall the fulness of the gospel of the Messiah come unto the Gentiles, and from the Gentiles unto the remnant of our seed.” This means that the Gentiles will receive the gospel of Jesus Christ and that they will bring the gospel in its fullness back to those of the house of Israel. The Israelites in the America’s fell into darkness and had the gospel taken away from them. The Jew’s rejected Christ and have be scattered and persecuted for almost 2,000 years. They are yet to accept the gospel of Jesus Christ. The gospel of Jesus Christ was restored ‘in it’s fullness’ and now ‘gentile’ missionaries are being sent to tribes around the globe to spread the good news on foot and on Facebook.
3. Revelation 20: 5-6 – What is the first resurrection and who gets to be a part of it?
Mosiah 15:21-26 tells us that “the resurrection of all the prophets, and all those that have believed in their words, or all those that have kept the commandments of God, shall come forth in the first resurrection…they that have died before Christ came, in their ignorance, not having salvation declared unto them, little children.”
Those that are part of the first resurrection get to play a role in the great work of the millennium while those that were unrighteous are excluded. The first resurrection has already begun and will continue until the end of the millennium.
These are 3 of about 20 examples I have in my notebook of things that are mentioned in the Bible but not understood by people that reject the Book of Mormon. There are many more. Where is the stick of Joseph referred to in Ezekiel 37? Where are the “other sheep” Jesus referred to in John 10? Why was Jesus baptized? Do little children need to repent or be baptized? And on and on…
When you read the Book of Mormon…you start to see that the Book of Mormon came to us in a day when we needed it most. The Bible needed the Book of Mormon to act as a second witness just a Paul tells the Corinthians that “in the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.” (2 Cor 13:1)
The title page to the Book of Mormon (which was actually the last leaf in the plates) states that the purpose of the Book of Mormon is to ‘convince the Jew and the Gentile that Jesus is the Christ’ in the last days. It was sent as another witness of Christ in a day when people are discarding the Bible and leaving Christ for atheism or agnosticism. Many people cite leaving the faith due to a lack of evidence in Biblical stories and traditions. So the Book of Mormon comes on to the scene and says, “wait a minute…I’ve got something to say”. For over 500 pages, the Book of Mormon goes on to testify of the Bible and of Christ. Literally. Christ is referenced on 95% of the pages in the Book of Mormon which makes Elder Holland’s great grandfather look pretty wise when he said “no wicked man could write such a book as this; and no good man would write it, unless it were true and he were commanded of God to do so.”
Give it a chance…
Greg, in the LDS articles of faith, it states that the Church believes that the Bible is the Word of God in so far as it’s translated correctly. You also mentioned in your blog post that the Bible is not an infallible work.
My question is this: If you can’t be sure that all of the Bible is correct, then how do you know any of it is?
So my contention isn’t why accept the Bible at least as an incomplete source for the Word of God, but rather if you can’t be sure that the Bible is accurate and free from error–why accept it at all? Don’t you stand the risk of teaching or learning something that is false when you aren’t sure that all of it is true?
Perhaps your answer would be that the Book of Mormon acts as a corrective to the Bible. But it can’t correct it all. If it did, then the Bible would be certainly unnecessary.
Why isn’t this a contradictory teaching in the LDS Church?
Thanks Greg
Broken bose –
I think your question is very fair. So first, believe me when I say, I am not a biblical scholar, so I apologize in advance for maybe not providing the best answer for you. In the 8th Article of Faith – “We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.” With regards to your question. It is not to say that the Bible is not correct in it’s teachings or prophecy. To be infallible is to say that it is incapable of error. As many translations as the holy prophecies and scripture have gone through, there is bound to be mistakes by the translator, because they in fact are not infallible. Thus, the many variations and understanding of the Scriptures/Bible. This alone does not say the bible is not true or the word of God, it is to only say that “as far as it is translated correctly.” Because a passage here or there is incorrectly translated does not make the whole book untrue. For example, if I take a test of 100 questions and I miss 5 of them, that doesn’t immediately dismiss the other 95 correct answers. Those are still right. Thus the reason that you have already pointed out of, this would be the reason we have the Book of Mormon to assist and help in corrections, etc. Just as I would have a text book or teacher to help me clarify my wrong answers for me. It is also included in the Book of Mormon Title Page “And now, if there are faults they are the mistakes of men; wherefore, condemn not the things of God, that ye may be found spotless at the judgment-seat of Christ.”
This is also the reason for the 5th and 6th Articles of Faith. 5) We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof. 6) We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.
We believe in a modern day Prophet called of God to help lead and guide us, and teach us correct principles and receive the direction of God’s children and to help us understand.
I hope I am somewhat clear in my rambling. But I believe this would be the reason that this would not be a contradictory teaching.
Again, I hope I helped maybe a little bit. I hope to see more responses from Greg and others who may be able to help me understand better also. Great question though! Thanks for giving me the opportunity to think and ponder your thoughts.
I believe that expression, “As far as it is correctly translated,” is over-used and sometimes abused. I once asked a sister, in a humorous fashion since I’m talkative, how I could , “Learn in silence” and ” ask my husband when I got home,” since I have no husband, and she said, “That’s a mistranslation,” which is is not. There are rather few mistranslations considering the scope of the Bible and the effort that went into translation it at the time. We should love the Bible as much as we love the Book of Mormon. I am equally inspired by both of them.
Love it! It is so true that doctrine backs up and adds on to true doctrine. God is an active and thorough God. He reveals and has revealed truth all through the ages thru prophets, to all who want to learn and hear. It never made sense to me that an engaged and loving Father wouldn’t continue to reveal doctrine and truth to His children. That’s why I eagerly embrace all the scriptures..and the “scriptures” and further truth we are revealed thru the Ensign,General Conference, etc by our Prophet and ordained leaders.
This was a great one! Very much enjoyed. Never heard the quote at the end by Elder Hollands great grandfather. If you really just try to take that little piece in and give it it’s due diligence of thought. It starts to make you think and get curious. Even when you already have your testimony. Thanks again Greg! I can’t say enough how much your messages have inspired me. Thank you!
I seem to be the “Gnat” of this blog post. But I had to say this. I can understand, and I can respect everyone’s opinion’s, beliefs, thoughts, gestures, etc. But why is it so hard for some to except these from a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, otherwise a “Mormon.” I read Alex Eisenberg’s post, and Michelle West Morrison’s post, and I hear ya! I get ya! I see where your thoughts, concerns, questions, etc. may be coming from. But why can’t you see, understand, or even respect my beliefs, thoughts, etc. You see, I am what you would call a “Mormon.” I am a convert to the church at the age of 18, only member of my family, was cut off, belittled by so called friends and family, told I should just go kill myself by a family member. But instead I served a mission shortly after a year of my baptism, married in the temple, fell away for some time as I made some awful decisions and mistakes, been through the councils, and ultimately found myself again studying it all out in my mind, heart, and with prayer. I turned to the scriptures, both the Bible and the Book of Mormon. I listened to everyone tell me how brain washed I was, how I was stupid in believing anything I had been taught or learned on my own. I came to a couple of things. First, Matthew Chapter 7, no particular verse, the whole chapter. However, one thing made very clear to me in this chapter is the council to beware of false prophets who come in sheep’s clothing but are ravening wolves. Also that a prophet will be known by the fruits, that a good tree cannot bring forth bad fruit, and that a bad tree cannot bring forth good fruit. In my studies, I have yet to find a LDS Prophet who is a bad tree. Their messages are kind, loving, compassionate, and follow the teachings of Jesus Christ. Their fruit is good. Another passage of scripture that is my strength is in the Book of Mormon, Moroni, Chapter 10 Verses 3-5. To those who do not accept the Book of Mormon, it is council that can be taken with any faith. Moroni 10:3-5,
3 Behold, I would exhort you that when ye shall read these things, if it be wisdom in God that ye should read them, that ye would remember how merciful the Lord hath been unto the children of men, from the creation of Adam even down until the time that ye shall receive these things, and ponder it in your hearts.
4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.
5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.
Despite what anyone says, “I” get to ponder it in my heart, my mind, my studies, etc. “I” get to do this. “I” get to ask God, “I” get to ask him in the name of Jesus Christ, if the things I read, study, learn, preach, etc., “I” get to ask him if these things are true. And Heavenly Father promises “me” that if “I” do this with REAL intent, and I do it with FAITH IN CHRIST, that he will let “me” know if this is true. He does this by sending the Holy Ghost to “me,” the Comforter, that helps lead “me” and guides “me.” “I” get to do all of this on my own. “I” get to do it. I don’t have to worry about anyone else, I do have to worry about Satan and his deception, I do have to worry about his temptations, etc. But, “I” alone get to do this. And I can assure you that I have taken this challenge, I have done it and “I” have learned for myself.
Look, if you want to dig deep enough, you will find exactly what you are looking for. There is enough rhetoric out there to demonize the church, and you will find it if you want to. And you will let others influence you. I was a missionary, ask any missionary, they don’t convert people, the people do this on their own with the help of the Holy Ghost through prayer to their Heavenly Father. But if you want to know for yourself, you alone have to do it and there is only one way.
People slam the church for not coming out on every detail they are challenged on. But you know what, as a Father, I have been challenged by my kids several times on many issues. And at times my answer is “because I said so,” that doesn’t make my answer right. At other times my answer is “well go figure it out,” that doesn’t make it right either. At other times, we discuss it, we challenge each other still, And then I say “pray about it.” You know what, my teenagers always come back with their answer to their prayers and they put God’s answer to the test. I can’t think of a time he has failed them, or lead them astray, because he won’t. (Matthew Chapter 7) But remember people, if you are not sincere in your effort to find out, your not going to get God’s answer, you will get the answer you want. Like I said, you can dig all you want, and if you dig long enough you will find exactly what you are looking for, and it may not be what God wants for you. I think it is pretty simple, we are the ones who make the gospel difficult, not God. It’s alright to dig, but know when you are deep enough and when it is time to pray and ask God. You don’t need to dig to the bottom depths of the earth to plant a good tree, you only need to dig deep enough to assure yourself of strong roots so that it grows to produce what you need. Good Fruit! Sorry for hijacking your post Greg!
Do some research into your own church history. I’ve asked questions and found the truth, its contained in this church. And the scrolls he translated were burnt in the Chicago fires.. Do your research please.
“The Bible” doesn’t say there will be no more works. Revelations and Exodus both say there should be nothing added to those books. The authors didn’t know how many books would be compiled to create the bible when they were writing them.
I also wanted to add, I DO NOT accept this gospel blindly. I ask questions over and over and Heavenly Father shows me these answers through His scriptures and more importantly testifies to my soul through the Holy Ghost what is true and what is false. Satan can not imitate the feelings of peace that we can only get from the holy ghost through Heavenly Father.
CivilIzations throughout history have been established on the backs of thousands of different gods, all of which are now inconsequential, along with their holy books. I contend that science has made and continues to make the only testable, repeatable “prophecies” about real-world events. The current generation is moving towards humanism en masse, which I applaud. We don’t need to pretend someone is playing with us as puppets to have morals and be nice to people. But we do need it to place ideas into out heads that cause is to judge and discriminate. How about we drop the Bible and just focus on actual real-world problems?
Kyle –
Sorry man I just can’t keep up. I like to think I am a smart guy. And I love science, but is quite apparent, I don’t or can’t go as deep as you. And that’s cool! You have a belief system and I recognize that. I just am not smart enough to debate you friendly on this topic. All I can tell you is that I do believe the Bible and the Book of Mormon to be the word of God. I have put it to my own test of faith and prayer, put together with the feelings I received afterward. I can and will only assume that you would pass this off as simple emotion that everyone experiences. But for me. I will tell you it was different. I love my God, and I believe and have faith that he is there for me and everyone. I believe with all my heart and mind that his son Jesus Christ came to earth and succeeded in his ministry and them died for me so that I can return to live with him again someday. Me personally, it is heart breaking to think that when I perish from this earth that it is just over and there is nothing left for me, if it is really like that, what a waste in my opinion. I went through all of this for nothing. That for me personally is a heart breaking thought. Seriously though, thanks for not making me feel stupid, I just. Any keep up on the science talk. I just have my faith. Good luck to you Ryan in all you do! Appreciate your feedback and response and keeping it cordial. Have a great day my friend!
Hi Jim,
It’s a pleasure to discuss things with you, I sincerely appreciate it. I hope none of my comments are construed as hateful, that is definitely not my intention. I respect you as a person and am grateful that we all have the freedom to believe as we wish. Yes, we happen to see the world differently, but I think we should all embrace difference and pull what good we can from everyone’s experiences. I am an RM (Chile, 2010-12) and was raised in the church. My understanding has evolved, and so my integrity demands that I be honest with myself and resign. However, I am grateful for all the good in the church 🙂 I personally find now that life is much more meaningful to me now as an agnostic/atheist. I appreciate the sheer miracle of life. I also feel that I care even more about the well being of others now. I feel even stronger now that we need to help people as much as possible, because the possibility exists that a God will not fix everything after death. These are just my thoughts, it’s a pleasure to speak with you 🙂
Kyle –
No hard feelings here at all. I hope you will understand that what I say is without offense intended, I am just one who likes to speak very frankly so there is not misunderstanding. So please understand. I had a good friend who followed your same route. Returned Missionary, absolute scripture scholar, 4.0 Pre Law Student, Graduated from Harvard Law #1 in his class. He left the church also, I always told him he was just to smart for his own good if you know what I mean. He in my opinion, went to deep. He said while attending Harvard, he was sitting on a park bench studying a plant. And he said that is when it hit him, the thoughts of evolution, etc. Of course I told him he lost his marbles. We laughed for a bit, and then said, “Dude, no seriously, you are a freak’in whack job.” He went on to explain to me his thoughts and we disagreed and to be honest, I did not know where he was coming from. We are still friends today and I love the guy, but it just doesn’t make sense. I assure you Kyle, that life can have meaning and great meaning at that without being agnostic/atheist. But that is why “agency” is so great! The hard part Kyle, as much as it is said in church, and as much as it is said, my your Sunday School teachers, etc. What I know, is “Agency” is not “Free.” There is a price for everything, and even agency has a price. It was heart breaking to see my good friend go down the path he did. I don’t know you Kyle except for here on Greg’s awesome blog. But brother, my heart tells me that I hope you return one day. I respect your beliefs and what you are doing, and you as a person for being open and honest and true. But I hope you find the rod again my friend. I would love to continue this conversation and chat. But I don’t know what Greg’s thoughts are about sharing personal contact info. If he is alright with it, leave me your email and I would be happy to reach out and do whatever I can to help, chat, etc. Be a friend. I wish you the best of luck, I really do. Take care my friend!
Kyle – Or look me up on Facebook, same photo as what’s on here. Big fat ugly bald guy in a striped polo shirt. Cant miss me, I am the guy who wont turn down a brownie or doughnut if offered.
Broken Bose – I think I got what you are saying. And to be perfectly honest. Not exactly sure how to really respond. I guess, like you, I have a be if in a God. And knowing that errors may have occurred in translation. As we still our a world and have been a world of natural man who make natural mistakes, even in study, science, and action. So I guess with that, I would say that I just don’t believe a God would render his entire gospel, such as the bible in this case utterly useless. I believe as man has made errors in the bible, I believe God would not let the scripture be entirely scratched if you will by man. I believe a some point he has the power to intervene so that it is correct. This this is the reason why I find faith and truth in the translations by Joseph Smith in some biblical scriptures, to correct errors known to man. I hope this makes sense. Thank you for getting back to me with clarification as I did not understand properly the first time. Have a great day!
Thanks for your kind reply again. Just some thoughts as I read through your reply and others in the forum here:
If God wrote the Bible and God through His Church tells us to not completely trust the Bible (since we can only know the Bible in its corrupted form according to the LDS Church) then why isn’t this a contradiction in God’s Church about God’s Word? It would seem that if God can tell us to not trust His own words given to us through the Bible completely that any word God says could be called into question especially if it is His Church that says not to trust it. It almost seems that God is opposing Himself, between His Church and His Word, which can’t be true. So either His Church is true, or His Word is.
In the Bible it says that my Words will never pass away (Mark 13:31), and that not one jot or tittle of His law found in the Bible (Matt. 5:18) will pass away until all is fulfilled. But if Christ’s Words and laws ARE fulfilled with and in the foundation of His Church and once again if it is His Church that says His words HAVE passed away, then doesn’t this itself show that the LDS Church is in contradiction to Christ’s Words in the Bible?
Which is correct? And if the original revelation of Christ words in the Bible are wrong, then why trust modern day revelation today? Couldn’t revelation in the future of God’s church just as easily nullify the revelation received today? Like blacks in the priesthood, or polygamy?
My original question was:
If we can’t know that all the Bible is true, then how do we know that any of it is?
I’ll expand that question now:
If we can’t trust revelation all of the time, then how can we trust it at anytime through the LDS Church?
I am not sure I am doing a very good job here in my explanation. I am going to try and go through your post piece by piece if I can to try and maybe make some sense here for you. I think also, with all do respect. I can only say and give so much if another party is not willing to accept me telling the truth. So let me please try again. I guess first I will start with that God did not write the bible, man did. Although God is the author/dictator of it through revelation and prophecy, he is not the scribe. Man is not perfect now, nor have they been ever other than our Savior Jesus Christ. So although they may be Prophets and Apostles who were the scribes, there is still the possibility of potential error if you will. If this was not the case, then why don’t Matthew, Mark, Luke, etc. Have the same story about Jesus’s baptism, it is told differently as well as written differently with different verbiage. This does not make Gods word wrong, it just means there could be errors in translation all the way back. And for clarification purposes, the LDS Church does not consider the bible corrupt. That is your word, not the church’s. And they definitely do not say that the bible is in anyway not to be trusted. Again, those are your words not the church’s. Also, they definitely do not say God contradicts his own church. Now that I think of it, let me put it this way to save time. I feel like I am getting argumentative. I have probably come across more books of scripture, the Bible, and in many cases none of these bibles translates scripture the same. I can look at one scripture in the King James Version and look at the same scripture in the New American Standard and the two same scriptures will read completely different leaving the mind open to confused interpretation. We believe that the King James Version is the most correct as it has been translated the least I believe. So with the beginning question. With regards to the Articles if Faith, we believe in the Bible as far as it is translated correctly, I would beleive to say that it has most to do with cases such as this. There is no contradiction, there is no doubt of Gods word, and there is no doubt of Gods word. As for the end of your statement with regards to revelation and polygamy and blacks and the priesthood. I beleive Gid has the will and power to do and change anything he wants to. I am in no position to question Gid and what he does or wants to do. And I don’t beleive that God has left this earth open to its own interpretation. He guided us through the Savior and apostles and prophets, so why wouldn’t he do it now. To use your own argument about the changing if scripture. Why would Gid reveal things to his prophets and apostles to lead and guide us in biblical times to change now in our times. It’s because he is our Father and wants to see, lead, and guide us as best he can down the oath that leads to eternal life with him. Broken Bose, I don’t know what to tell you, I can’t help you understand if you are not willing to accept the realistic possibility if my testimony and answers. God lives, and Jesus is the Christ. He died for us, was raised for us, we beleive and support the Bible as do we also the Book of Mormon. We beleive that we have a modern day prophet who is called of God and receives his direction to help lead and guide us the saints if his church. I am certain you feel that I still didn’t answer your question but I did the best I could. I am sorry and I wish you the best of luck in understanding this gospel I am apart of. Please have a great day!
Thanks again for your answer Jim. You seem like a very nice person and I’m sorry for the frustration. You seem like the only person willing to answer questions, and while I am having difficulty understanding the underlying reasonableness of the articles of faith with regards the bible and Book of Mormon, I do appreciate your replies.
God bless,
Broken Bose
Broken bose – I am sorry man, I’m trying. I guess I just don’t have what it takes to get you the answer you are looking for. I wish you the best of luck and maybe we will see one another again on another one of Greg’s great blog post. Take care my friend!
One more thing. Sorry for all the misspellings and translation you have had to do of my post. Much has been answered on my phone and auto correct does not do me too many favors at times.
And to clarify, we do believe in God, there is no Mormon God named “Gid”. Ha ha! Have a great day man!
Kyle, you’re missing my point.
Atheism is essentially nothing more than a declaration that there are no moral absolutes, which in itself is a declaration of a moral absolute, contradicting it’s own maxim. By being an atheist then, you necessarily take away your ability to be critical of anyone else’s moral prerogatives since by definition all moral prerogatives including your own are no better or worse than anyone else’s–it all just comes down to one’s own personal self-interests. By being critical of others then, you are effectively affirming that some moral prerogatives are more important or more desirable than others, which undercuts your position. So your appeal to altruism for its own sake as somehow being ‘better’ or more ‘true’ or ‘noble’ is nothing more than a self-imposed delusion to be frank–which is no less dogmatic than what you would say about me and my belief in a God who punishes.
All the altruism in the world and three bucks still won’t buy you a venti-sized drink at Starbucks (sorry LDSers). And no secular humanist with all their humanism is any better off than an honest atheist, five minutes after they’re both pushing up the pavement. So why bother?
How does any moral prerogative from an atheist compel me to do anything against my own self-interest?
Because it hurts others not to? Or helps others if I do? Again, if either of these two positions contradicts what I hold about my own individual self-interests as an atheist, then I’ll say it again as a honest atheist would–who cares?
At least Nietsche was an honest enough atheist to admit that when God is dead, all moral absolutes die with Him.
Frankly, nothing is more muddled than when an atheist stands in moral judgment of others.
I cannot agree that the Bible “needs” the Book of Mormon. The Bible was given to man for a number of reasons –to show us Who God is and what God is really like. The Bible shows us that the true character of God is Love as shown through His Son Jesus Christ. The Bible presents to us the Salvation of man through Jesus Christ. It Shows to us the Compassion the Love and Mercy and Grace that God has for us his children who have been “created in His image.” The Bible from Genesis through Revelation is about Jesus Christ Who is God and Who was willing to pay the penalty for man’s transgression of Holy Law. The Bible tells us that only Holy blood could pay for man’s breaking Divine Law. The Bible tells us of the earth’s beginning and Who made the heavens and the earth. The Bible tells us what sin is and that man’s transgression of God’s Holy Law demands Justice. Again the Bible shows us how Jesus was the only Being in the Universe Who could save us from eternal death by His gift of Salvation by His atoning death. For FOUR THOUSAND YEARS the Bible has been a revelation of the living God and of God’s Purpose, God’s Love, God’s Salvation and God’s Future for His followers etc. etc. No other book can answer the questioning of the mind or satisfy the the longing of the heart as the Bible does. Received by faith, the Bible has power to transform the life of people. The Bible offers Divine wisdom to those who read and study it. During all it’s history God’s divine Hand has been over it and has preserved the Bible for the world all the way down to our generation. And, the Bible, God’s Holy Word will be here until the return of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ returns. .
I like it Clint! However, you make the comment at the very beginning of “I cannot agree that the Bible needs the Book of Mormon.” I might suggest that you read the Book of Mormon, much of what you shared is also in the Book of Mormon, thus the reason it is called “Another Testament of Jesus Christ.” My only question for clarification purposes is this. You make a reference that Jesus Christ is God. I am assuming that you mean they are only one person in the God Head, this is only an assumption. We believe that God, and Jesus are two distinct and separate individuals. Now I know in the scriptures there are several references stating the “I and my Father are one.” I get that. To me it just doesn’t make sense, especially when I read about the baptism of Christ. In the scriptures it says that Christ was baptized, and when he was the heavens were opened up and the Holy Ghost descended in the sign of a dove and a voice came from the heavens that said thou art my beloved son in thee I am well pleased. Luke 3:21-22. Jesus did not throw his voice to the heavens like a ventriloquist, he could not descend upon himself. This is one instance in the scriptures among others where all three members of the God Head are in the same place at once and are recognizable as three and separate distinct individuals. You post was great, seriously loved it and love hearing it. Good luck to you and if you can teach me any more I am always open. Have a great day!,
Hi Jim, Thanks for your comments. I do agree with you that the Godhead is made up of God the Father and God the Son and God the Holy Spirit .These three Persons are individuals but They have a unique oneness of purpose. They create things like other worlds and galaxies and they keep the vast universe going. At the same time and on a much closer level They all three work together toward the salvation of mankind. And this is so awesome, that God —the Trinity with all that They have to do still take time to provide this rebellious planet with the offer of atonement through Jesus. The Father wanted Jesus to come to the world for man’s salvation and Jesus the Son, willingly wanted to come and be a sacrifice so man could have salvation. And we know that the Holy Spirit was also in agreement as Matt. 1:20 tells us that an angel appeared to Joseph and told him “—–that which is conceived in her (Mary) is of the Holy Ghost.
Jim, i have read some of the Book of Mormon and where it goes along with the teachings of the Bible I agree with it. At the same time, the the old testament was what Jesus read when He walked the earth. Jesus told the people to “Search ye the Scriptures because in them ye think ye have eternal life—and they are they which testify of Me.” John 5:39. The OT was written over hundreds of years before Jesus was born by many men who were inspired by God. The Old Testament and the New Testament (also written by men inspired by God) both teach of God’s love for mankind and of the Salvation that is available because of Jesus’ sacrifice.
Clint, thank you for the response and the clarification of your belief and testimony. I appreciate your testimony of faith and your love for God and his son Jesus Christ. Seriously thank you again. Although I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. I believe I can too also find strength in another persons chosen faith through their power of faith and love of the gospel. Thanks again Clint, very much appreciated. Have a great day man!
Jim, I have enjoyed corresponding with you too. I also believe that we can find strength in people of other faiths such as yourself . We are children of our Father God and we may have a few differences of opinion but we share faith that God loves us and that His Son died for us, and that Jesus will return one day. In these latter times it is good to know that there are fellow Christians like you who are there, who give us strength and encouragement. Thanks very much. Have a great weekend.
The Book of Mormon…. I honestly have no idea how a person could believe it. There is no evidence for the places in the book, or the tribes, or that Joe Smith was anything other than a con-man. I think Mormons are generally nice but it actually hurts my faith in the human mind a little bit that so many people in Utah, and even some surrounding states, believe in that. It seems like the most easily debunked of any religion I’ve checked into.
I like what this girl has to say.
Jon Goff, Your comment is false. I am LDS too, but I am not going to lie about the facts. Where did you get the “99.999%”? I have a replica of the original Book of Mormon, 1830 edition, and you are not being honest – unless you haven’t checked yourself and you don’t even know what you are talking about – and that is deceptive AND dishonest. Get one and check for yourself, there are significant doctrinal changes made in the Book of Mormon. I am not coming to conclusions or saying what it means, but let’s at least be honest!
Fast forward 10 years and the WHO finally declared that even a drop of alcohol is bad for you. Joseph Smith received the Word of Wisdom nearly a century ago. Science is corroborating a lot of things that have been taught by the Church for a long time. In time, that same science will have to acknowledge it was wrong as they were wrong with tobacco (sponsored even by doctors initially), alcohol (still promoted as beneficial in small portions), etc. My advice? Focus on the whole picture. focus on how the Restored Gospel has the power to vanish away the desire to sin. Focus on the kindness and long-suffering and love of millions of people across the planet. Lot of religions appear and disappear, false leaders are exposed and their organizations vanish away. But, this Church goes on. Surely, there is something special about this Church and its members that no other organization can replicate. We aren’t perfect but we strive every day to become more like our Redeemer. This is the Church of the Living Christ. He will finally make us perfect by the power of His Atonement after performing our best efforts. Some want us to choose among Philosophy, Science and Religion. But, the Lord tells us to learn from the best books (through study) and by faith (inspiration from the Holy Spirit). Our Father will help us discern and recognize which is true and which is not. There will be cases when our limited intelligence will not allow us to understand everything but the Lord know exactly what we need to know to reach exaltation and serve and love our neighbors during the process.
“These are 3 of about 20 examples I have in my notebook of things that are mentioned in the Bible but not understood by people that reject the Book of Mormon. There are many more.”
Were can I get the list of those 20 and more things?