The 3 Types Of Mormons In The Last Days

On June 16th 1844 Joseph Smith gave what is known as the “Sermon in the Grove.” It was one of the last things we’d ever hear from the prophet and it got cut short on account of the rain. He was only eleven days away from his martyrdom at Carthage and he knew that his time was drawing near. Before the rain ended the sermon, Joseph said something that is as applicable today as it was in 1844 Nauvoo. He said, “I have reason to think the Church is being purged.”

When you combine that statement with a revelation given in Kirtland on July 23, 1837 also known as Doctrine & Covenants 112…you get the feeling that it will not be an easy task to be a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in the last days. The revelation states that “gross darkness” is covering the minds of the people and that “vengeance cometh speedily upon the inhabitants of the earth, a day of wrath, a day of burning, a day of desolation, of weeping, of mourning, and of lamentation.”

But what’s most interesting is that so many of us assume that it’s the secular world that’s going to take the brunt of these troubled times. That’s not the case at all. In fact, the Lord says that “upon my house (Mormons) shall it begin, and from my house shall it go forth…first among those among you, saith the Lord, who have professed to know my name and have not known me, and have blasphemed against me in the midst of my house.” (D&C 112:23-26)

So…I’ve observed 3 types of Mormons in the church these days, but I believe that only the third type will be able to endure the trials of faith that are here now and are coming soon.

1. The Stalwart But Stubborn Mormon

These Mormons are full of faith and are used to the standard narrative. They cling to what they’ve learned in primary and cringe at anything that might contradict the things they’ve learned for so long. Change is tough for this group of Mormons. They might quote the scripture that says “God is the same yesterday, today, and forever” and assume that the church will also be the same yesterday, today, and forever. They still think that Joseph Smith sat at a table with a sheet between he and Oliver Cowdrey as he traced the engravings on the gold plates and translated for hours on end. They like how Abraham sought for further light and knowledge but have trouble applying that same principle to themselves . What they know…is what they know, and nothing else seems to matter.

This type of Mormon doesn’t think much of church scholars. They have their old library of books at home that consist of Mormon Doctrine, Doctrines of Salvation, and a host of other similar titles that were published between the 1970’s and 1985. They have the Collected Works of Hugh Nibley on their shelf but had a hard time getting through them. Critics of the church would call these people…sheeple. They would sarcastically call them “TBM’s” or “True Believing Mormons.”

I love this group of Mormons. They are faithful and obedient. They always seem to be there to help and are generally service oriented. Their only issue is how they might react to people that have questions about their faith. If the questions or statements they hear from others contradict or disrupt their long held understanding of something…they can sometimes get defensive and exhibit a condemning attitude toward the questioner. This behavior might make the questioner feel stupid…and can really turn off a struggling member that may have not had the same testimony building experiences that they have had. As Paul said…this stalwart but stubborn Mormon may have a “zeal but not according to knowledge” wherein they are immoveable in their position on a portion of church history or doctrine, while being genuinely wrong all at the same time. Lots of zeal…but lacking correct knowledge causes the same situation Alma was witnessing in the church. They “began to be scornful, one towards another, and they began to persecute those that did not believe according to their own will and pleasure.”  These people have a major problem with just saying “I don’t know…but lets discuss” which leads to innocently but ignorantly misleading others who might be honestly seeking.

types of mormons

2. The Curious But Furious Mormon

This group of Mormons is small…but growing very fast because of the transparency of the internet and social media. They are good hearted and sensitive people that have taken seriously the admonition of Joseph Smith to “go on to perfection, and search deeper and deeper into the mysteries of Godliness.”

But as they’re searching, they are finding things that contradict the things they may have learned in Primary and Sunday School. Some of those things as Elder Ballard has recently mentioned are “less known or controversial, such as polygamy, seer stones, different accounts of the First Vision, the process of translation of the Book of Mormon or the Book of Abraham, gender issues, race and the priesthood, or a Heavenly Mother.”

[I read the most amazing book on these topics recently called “A Reason For Faith” that gives clear and honest background on each of these topics. The “controversial topic” essays Elder Ballard is referring to can also be found here at LDS.org ]

Where the stalwart but stubborn Mormon might shun or ignore these topics and go about his or her business, the curious but furious Mormon might jump to wrong conclusions on incomplete information from less than reputable sources and make rash decisions regarding their faith. Once a person has made a rash decision, human nature and inherent pride makes it very difficult to reverse that decision for fear of seeming “wishy-washy.” Most of the time, when someone makes a rash decision, they end up getting behind their decision 100% regardless of whether they know if it was right or wrong.

This type of Mormon is the one that approaches the other type of Mormon (The Stalwart But Stubborn Mormon) discussed above and asks them why the Sunday School manual has a picture of Joseph and Oliver sitting at the table with a sheet in front of them when in reality, Joseph used a seer stone in a hat to translate while the plates remained covered. If the stalwart but close-minded Mormon reacts defensively or arrogantly…a battle of truth vs. tradition ensues and no one is the winner. In many cases, this type of Mormon is right about various aspects of church history but many times doesn’t stick around long enough to see the issue rectified in the upcoming manual. The curious Mormon now becomes a furious Mormon and believes they’ve been lied to maliciously for all these years…while the stalwart but close-minded Mormon has lost a brother or sister to help them run the ward council.

Both types of Mormons contribute to the attrition.

groups of mormons

3. The Stalwart But Curious Mormon

Ahhhh. Finally…a group of Mormons that are exciting to discuss. This group of Mormons consist of a marriage between the two previous groups of Mormons. Interestingly enough…the two above groups of Mormons, put together, makes the sort of Mormon that has the intellectual and spiritual ability to pull down the powers of heaven on a regular basis and work modern miracles. This is the sort of Mormon Joseph Smith was. This is the sort of Mormon that is firm in their faith but always open to discuss different points of view. They’re looking for truth and willing to accept it even if it contradicts their current views. These are the Mormons that are truly learning and growing as they combine their faith and intellect to navigate through tough times.

These Mormons are more interested in helping people than they are at “being right.” They are better at listening and understanding than they are at speaking and postulating. This type of Mormon has no illusions of the church being perfect, the people or leaders being perfect, or the history being 100% accurate as it’s recorded in a 1980’s Sunday School manual. This Mormon is ready and willing to listen when Elder Ballard says you should learn about these controversial essays and topics and know them “like you know the back of your hand.” This Mormon knows that the narrative in the church can change over time, but that the doctrine can still remain pure and true and unlike any other theology this world has ever seen.

This is the true disciple of Christ. This is the peacemaker and knowledge seeker. This is type of Mormon that will usher in the Second Coming of Christ. This is the type of Mormon I want to be…

mormons

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31 thoughts on “The 3 Types Of Mormons In The Last Days

  1. Michael Fife

    1. First group. Blind sheep.
    2. Second group. Humble enough to admit they are wrong and courageous enough to accept the emotional pain of being dead wrong about something you cared the most about.
    3. Third group. Intellectually dishonest and emotionally immature. Have to be right even if it means dieing in a sinking ship. People in this category will categorize people into groups of three while ignoring a multitude differences between two individals let alone an entire group. Very much comfortable putting themselves in the best light possible. Basically ultimate hypocrites.

    • David Austin

      As I said in another comment, trimble’s groups are at best stages and as such they are very crude and overgeneralized stages. I’d say the same about your comment. There are hundreds of stages, the three you added are three noteworthy stages combined with the three trimble identified, but combined these 6 do not come close to accurately portraying the stages Mormons go through … some which appear to be convenient intellectual stopping points for those who choose not to heal, grow, and help others find their own way of coping with change. We’re all at different stages. Including you and Trimble. Hopefully, not a stopping point.

      • Michael Fife

        Well put. I was following the established pattern. Was I not suppose to put myelf in bestlight possible and denigrate all others. I’d assume Mr. Trimble and all those who explain the specialtude of their ever so humbly gained insights of their special place in gods kingdom and their special vague certitude of their own uncertain knowledge would approve of my own similiar style and arrogance.

    • Rob Nielsen

      comment about first group: hasty generalization.
      comment about second group: confirmation bias.
      comment about third group: outright libal, with statements contrary to the categorization. (group 3 doesn’t care if they are right. they care about knowledge.) purely intended to spread hatred of this particular individual.

      none of these comments contribute anything to a conversation, or to society as a whole. it can best be summed up as a “hissy fit” or “temper tantrum” because you are personally offended. why you are offended, I can not say. but given your attempt to paint group 2 as rational thinking victims, and group 3 as lying co-artists who are only out to steal your money; I can infer (whether correct or not) that you were once part of group 2, and you had a bad experience with something who thought they were in group 3, but were actually in group 1. and this experience pushed you away from the church; and now you have taken up the mantle of “I must destroy the church that lied to me.” which explains why you can’t tell the difference between group 1 and group 3. (group 1 is the group that has to be right at all time, and is often quick to anger.)

      is I am wrong about any of my inferred assumptions (which is probably the case) then please let me know. as I myself belong to group 3, I care less about “being right” and more about learning the truth. I am also mature enough to have an open-minded discussion without the need for childish name-calling, and endless logical fallacies.

    • Brad James

      so having faith makes me intellectually dishonest? As a journalist myself, I can tell you that from my vantage point, not having faith in anything (i.e., the government is completely corrupt, no one good is in there, all athletes take performance-enhancing substances just because many have blah blah and so on) makes you look cynical and cryptic. It’s better to be quixotic and hope for a better world. The Lord has revealed truth to me and the Church is true.

  2. GeorgiaMormon

    As usual Greg you’e hit the nail on the head. The wheat and the tares have been growing up together in the Church for a long time, and the time for the separation, reaping and harvesting and burning is here. We’d all better follow the Prophet and tighten our seat belts ’cause it’s gonna be a bumpy ride!

    And as for Richard Marriotti’s “pigeon holes” – you have as much right as anyone to have an opinion and to share it. Bravo!

  3. 2_amazed

    Greg, you said”These people have a major problem with just saying “I don’t know…but lets discuss” which leads to innocently but ignorantly misleading others who might be honestly seeking.”

    Can you clarify this for me? Because the way I am reading your statement the “stalwart” is admitting they don’t know, but then going onto discuss what they don’t know about — which to me would be pointless. If neither person knows the answer I can’t see the conversation being one of enlightenment for either party.

    • Greg Trimble

      I think sometimes we can think we know everything (humans in general) and we are afraid to admit that we don’t know something. There are plenty of things I don’t know. No one on this earth knows everything, therefore there is always something that a person doesn’t know.

      • 2_amazed

        Thanks for your response, Greg. Ok, then are you saying that the ‘stalwart’ should 1) say I don’t know. Period. Or,

        2) I don’t know, but I am willing to look for the answers ‘you’ are seeking because ‘you’ have a question about that particular issue? And I should feel as uncomfortable as ‘you’ and want to find an answer?

      • td8057

        Greg I agree that no one knows everything. And because we don’t know everything, I think the logical follow-up to that idea is that we have to go off of what is most justifiably true about our reality. That’s really all we can expect from ourselves. And one of the most key elements to finding the most rationally justified belief is through belief revision. Another key element is falsification.

        Now if a person never considers as an option that the church just might not be living up to its truth claims, then its not possible for one to falsify their beliefs to make sure they’re not wrong as thoroughly or as comprehensively as they possibly could.

        And if one is not willing to revise their beliefs in any or all possible ways based on wherever the evidence may lead at any given point in time, then that person couldn’t truly be honest in declaring that they have as rational of a justification for their beliefs as they could possibly have.

        I think a good indicator to tell when someone ultimately values the pursuit of belief over the pursuit of truth is when they aren’t willing to be open to all rationally possible options.

  4. Cellana

    4. The Stalwart but Humble Mormon. These Mormons are a lot like the Stalwart and Stubborn Mormons except they are willing to welcome those that may not have a strong testimony or may not be a member with open arms. These are the members who might see the person coming back to church for the first time in 40 years that still has a faint smell of cigarette smoke, and give them a warm welcome with either a hug or a pat on the back. These Mormons may not have a perfect understanding of everything that is being questioned in the church right now, or the “hot topics” but they press forward with faith and a brightness in hope praying and reading the scriptures and knowing that when they need to KNOW the answer to it, it will come. These people are not “sheeple” but they have a strong testimony of the gospel and have faith and love the Presidency and apostles of the church. These types of Mormons look at pictures in the church manuals and don’t really care if it’s an accurate depiction of not, but just think, “Huh, that’s a nice picture.” These are the Mormons who listen to those who have left that have a mind full of bitterness over how they’ve been betrayed and deceived, and have a heart full of sadness and love for that person, hoping that at some point the person who has left, will come back some day, but also knowing that no matter what they say at that point, the bitter person will not be open to hearing and accepting any truth.

    That being said, I don’t think people have to question everything to be a strong Mormon. Some people have a more accepting heart and when the Holy Ghost touches them, they believe no matter what. The hot topics may come and go, but they worry about living so the Holy Ghost is in their life and guiding them, more than whether they have the answer to every spiritual question ever wondered about on the planet.

    • LJM

      Oh I like this one. This #4 decribes me. Nevertheless (haha BoM term) I think Greg’s ideas in the article make sense and do fit but may be incomplete. He’s stated his observations and I respect that. Personally I have my own opinions/beliefs about the “small stuff” and try to stick to the main doctrine. Often times when I get overwhelmed with the “dos and don’ts” of the church (esp the church culture) I go back to the the basics of the main doctrine and principles of Jesus Christ’s gospel. In the end I can only hope for His mercy and forgiveness because I know I am far from perfect but I’ve hope in the knowledge that it’s not perfection that is required but going in the right direction. We all have to decide where we want to be in the next life. We all have to make our own judgements of what is the right direction. God will judge where our direction has taken us and His judgement will be perfect.

  5. Alex Barclay

    The 4th type are the Unfaithful Curious, who use their newfound knowledge wrongly. Instead of remaining absolutely and completely stalwart and committed as they should, they knowingly or unknowingly aid those opposing the church. They are applauded and encouraged by those who say that church members have and are being lied to and mislead, deliberately or otherwise.

    But more importantly, their actions effectively discount, discredit and devalue the absolutely vital importance and reality of the restoration – and thus they support the work of the adversary. They often feel their greater knowledge puts them in a superior position to “ordinary” church members. They often betray their sorry and sad condition when they refer to faithful members as TBMs and sheeple – or Temple Recommends as “Golden Tickets”.

    The key issue are these. (1) Is the BoM an ancient record revealed by God in our time and Another Testament of Jesus Christ – or is it not? And (2) Are ALL the ordinances and doctrines of salvation, as revealed by the Presidents of the church, from God or are they not? Every single one of the issues raised by the Unfaithful Curious are by comparison, nothing more than Froth and Bubbles in reality – and this is why.

    The Lord is more than capable of removing Prophets that have gone off the rails. Although we may think that his forbearance and patience with their follies is excessive at times , he will not allow them to lead us astray in VITAL matters of covenants, ordinances, doctrines and salvation.

    Consider Eli, whose sons were an abomination to the office they held. The faithful sought and actually received important blessings from Eli’s hand – until he was suddenly and unceremoniously removed.

    Consider Saul in his madness and rage. Even the weak and imperfect David was able to recognize that Saul was the Lord’s anointed and was NOT to be removed by the judgemental actions of any mortal.

    Consider Noah, who was perhaps a drunkard and who only a tiny handful of the faithful sustained. The Lord sustained him – even though the rest of the world did not.

    We have the privilege of sustaining certain imperfect human beings as being “called and chosen” of the Lord – in spite of their imperfections. If we fail to recognise them as such and sustain them, it does not in the slightest way diminish their authority – or the power that is available to them. Failing to sustain the Lord’s chosen representatives does nothing more than preventing US from drawing on their needed power and direction in our personal lives.

    Failing to sustain local or general church leaders puts the Unfaithful Curious in a rather etherial but meaningful position – which is also untenable. What are they thinking? On the occasions when the faithful stand up to be counted, how do they handle it? Do they think that they can sustain the local leaders but not the GAs or the Q15? Or vica versa? Do they abstain from raising their arms? Do they openly oppose – or do they just absent themselves ? The faithful do not just raise their hands. They also raise their arms. Because they are raising their very hearts and souls in witness to God.

    Anyone that has prayerfully read the BoM will know that JS spoke truly when he said “The BoM is the most correct of any book on earth and that a man will get nearer to God by it THAN BY ANY OTHER BOOK” How can anyone say with any consistency “I believe the BoM is from God – but the ordinances and doctrines administered by the church priesthood are fraudulent.” In effect they are claiming that there has been a 2nd apostasy. Unless the Unfaithful Curious are able to convincingly (or even plausibly) show that the BoM is not an ancient record revealed by God in our time and Another Testament of Jesus Christ, then they have nothing whatsoever of any substance to say. But this they cannot do – so they play with froth and bubbles instead.

    What does it matter if JS or BY made some mistakes – or if various GAs have at times promoted their own opinions as doctrine? What does it matter if a 1980s Sunday School manual shows JS & OC separated by a hanging blanket when translating the plates? The vital and critical things, are the doctrines and ordinances of salvation and exaltation that have been revealed and administered by the Prophets. If these things ARE from God, then how ridiculous it is to use froth and bubbles issues as “permission to be unfaithful” or to be less than stalwart!. Or to worse still to actively use them to undermine the faith of others.

    By contrast, the Stalwart But Curious use their newfound knowledge humbly, and on appropriate occasions only, to enlighten others and to actively encourage their faith.

    Local leaders these days are increasingly forced to spend more and more time adjudicating in petty Facebook issues and squabbles and suchlike. But they have hugely more important eternal and vital things to be spending their valuable time on. Similarly, it is wrong that the time and energy of the general church leadship should be taken up reponding to the froth and bubbles issues raised by the Unfaithful Curious. But generally speaking thay manage to do a good job in handling that and concentrating on their core witness of the restoration.

    Personally I am rather tempted by the somewhat intemperate example of BY when he became wearied of being berated at length by Mark Twain. He went up to him and patted him on the head with a beatific smile, loudly exclaiming “Beautiful child! Boy or girl?”

  6. 2_amazed

    I can appreciate your response. Though by honestly saying “I don’t know” and not pursuing a discussion about what “I don’t know” doesn’t seem as though it should be misleading.

    Also, context is everything too. Is this a one on one discussion or in a mixed group like SS, RS, or PR?

  7. 2_amazed

    Milo, thank you for your thoughtful response. I can agree with what you are saying.

    You only lost me when you threw in the, “Satisfied?”

    Not sure what that was about or why it was necessary to include.

  8. Shawn Murphy

    I will be a friend to the friendless, I will seek to uplift the weakest of Saints, I will seek to comfort those in need of comfort, I will follow The Prophet, I will pay my tithes & generous offerings, I will love & serve all that I can, I will not judge others, but try my best to be Christ-like in all that I do, I will share & testify of truth as often as I can, & I will love & serve my family to the best of my ability & I will always seek to keep the commandments of God, I will soak in The Spirit when I have the privilege of worshipping in the temple, & I will do my best to be obedient & to repent quickly when I error or sin, & I am a constant seeker of truth in all things & read & pray much & trust in my loving Heavenly Father & in my Saviour & Redeemer Jesus Christ to guide & direct me as I act & move my feet ever forward. I’m sure I left out much, but this is the type of Mormon I am, but I wish to improve & do better each day.

  9. Becky

    You’ve made some interesting points here. A lot of it seems really generalized though, and it feels like you maybe don’t understand why a lot of people become angry when they realize there has been deception in teaching the history of the church, whether it was intentional or not.It’s pretty normal to feel angry when you find that out. Where someone goes from there is their own choice, and to imply that the people who choose not to believe many of those things about the church are unfaithful is cruel. Maybe it’s a matter of integrity to them to find out the ‘truth’ the best they can so they can make a more informed decision. I also think it’s a pretty big assumption to make and a slightly arrogant statement to say “This is the sort of Mormon Joseph Smith was. This is the sort of Mormon that is firm in their faith but always open to discuss different points of view.” I don’t think anyone living now can really KNOW what Joseph Smith was. You can make your own conclusions about Joseph Smith after studying all of the accounts written about him, whether they are faith affirming or not. Your opinion feels dismissive of the many good people who go through normal human emotions and experiences when they find out things about him that they weren’t taught in church for their entire life. I think i get what you mean when you talk about being a peacemaker and that’s the kind of Mormon you want to be, I think that’s lovely. I wish that all of us, no matter where we fall in Mormonism, or as humans for that matter, could feel that way. I also think this is such multifaceted and layered issue that you can’t effectively sum it up that simply. It feels dismissive of the pain and suffering many good people go through. It feels like you are saying it doesn’t matter who’s right or wrong. In some ways that’s true, we can still be good humans to each other, whether we disagree or not. Sometimes truth matters though and I think to dismiss the fact that many people care about the truth is a little bit frightening. It feels like you are suggesting that the truth doesn’t matter. This is the first time I’ve read any of your posts, I don’t really know your story, or anything about you, and maybe I’m reading your wrong. I disagree with your assessment that people who have learned things that make them angry aren’t stalwart. the way I see it, their integrity compels them to find out what they’ve never known before and reevaluate their beliefs. I think that makes them stronger and more honest.

  10. M Curle

    Any of you who are criticizing those who have posted differing views about this article better rethink which of the three categories you belong to if you think you are in #3. Are you REALLY, as Greg describes, “the sort of Mormon that is firm in their faith but always open to discuss different points of view”? Are you TRULY “looking for truth and willing to accept it even if it contradicts [your] current views?” Doesn’t sound like it to me. I feel no animosity toward Brother Trimble whatsoever. I’m certain he is a great guy, but I don’t agree with his notion of there being three categories of Mormons at all. If you want to categorize, I would say there are 15,634,199 different types of Mormons. Heck, why don’t we say there are 7.125 billion different types of children of God? The point is that we are all unique individuals making our way through this life. I believe that is how God sees us. I don’t believe he puts us into categories of any kind. I believe it is extremely short-sighted to say there is this type or that type of Mormon. The minute we start sticking people in categories is the minute that we open doors to “holier than thou” types of attitudes, or when we start to drum up worrisome thoughts that maybe we aren’t in the “best” category. How on earth can we “love our neighbors as ourselves” if we think we’re better or worse than those around us? Like I said, I have nothing against Greg but I just prefer to put each person I meet into the “child of God” category because it helps me to see and treat them the way I believe they are intended to be seen and treated.

  11. Maria Eberle

    I am amazed at the interesting comments you receive Greg. Your blogs alway make me think. I am not sure to which category I belong but I KNOW that I follow Jesus Christ. I KNOW the personal revelation I received when I asked God about the BofM and JS. I can never deny those 2 things. I may not always go to church but I DO follow the commandments to the best of my ability.
    Thanks for writing. Keep them coming!

  12. Rebekah Estrada Vaisey

    I wonder about the other categories of Mormons both among those who stayed and those who have left. Many come to mind but I will just mention two. I know some who stay after they are convinced that it isn’t “true” because the cost to themselves socially, to their family relationships and sometimes economically is too high. They live quietly and under the radar out of fear. They engage socially and can be valuable members of the community but the personal toll can be great. Or what about the category who thoughtfully searched who, in fact, looked a lot like this third group you have constructed, for years but who came to the frightening and difficult conclusion that in order to live a life of integrity they would need to leave? The straw man of “less than reputable sources” negates the possibility that these members could read reputable sources and reasonably conclude that staying was not an option. The sense of loss among this group is akin to the death of a loved one.I think considering some of the other Mormon experiences might make us realize that this is a complicated issue and that there can be worse things than attrition. But if the a priori assumption is that leaving is the worst than none of these other categories really need to be considered.

  13. Gloria P. clements

    The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints as restored by our Savior, as it was in Ancient times, is totally perfect……Anything done by man is is subject to tiny imperfections at times, and must be accepted in the spirit in which it is done, and that spirit is truth and righteousness and obedience to our Lord. I think man under the direction of our Lord can indeed do a great and worthy and miraculous work, as is always the case with the work of the Lord, however we must be totally obedient to our leaders, as the Lord says, whether it be by me, or my servants, it is the same.

  14. Kinglamoni

    These three types of Mormons have already been observed.

    Stalwart But Stubborn= Orthodox/ fundamental
    Curious But Furious= ex-Mormons/ some who are inactive
    Stalwart But Curious= progressive

    All are faithful. No one is any better a person than the other.

    It is my opinion from reading some of what you write Greg, you fall within the orthodox category of Mormon, the most prominent of the three groups.

  15. Kinglamoni

    These three types of Mormons have already been observed.

    Stalwart But Stubborn= Orthodox/ fundamental
    Curious But Furious= ex-Mormons/ some who are inactive
    Stalwart But Curious= progressive

    All are faithful. No one is any better a person than the other.

    It is my opinion from reading some of what you write Greg, you fall within the orthodox category of Mormon, the most prominent of the three groups.

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